Jennifer Stewart: I want to go back to the beginning. When you were deciding on a career path, why did you choose to join the military? At the time, I imagine it wasn’t a natural career choice for many young women.
Gen. Jennie Carignan: Well, even speaking about the military, there was no military connection within my family or even in my small community. The first time I saw a uniform was when I had to iron it during my first few weeks of military training.
But I think I was looking for something where I could contribute. I was looking for something important to do. Joining the military college was really just a first step. I wasn’t necessarily considering a long career – I was looking for something interesting, something that would be difficult and a bit of a challenge. That’s what interested me in first going to military college.
Catherine Clark: If you didn’t have a family background in the military, how did your family react when you told them this was the career path you wanted to pursue?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: I think they were very supportive. My mom always encouraged me to be bold and to try whatever I thought would be good for me. My dad was the same – always very supportive.
They thought it was an interesting path and, frankly, I think they were very proud that I chose it. I will always remember when my dad dropped me off at the bus station in my little hometown. I was going to Montreal as the first stage of heading to British Columbia for basic training. My dad was crying as the bus was leaving, and I had never seen him cry before.
My mom had given him instructions to take me because she couldn’t do it herself. So my dad was tasked with dropping me off at the bus station. It’s a moment I will always remember.
Jennifer Stewart: Was the experience what you expected it to be? What were some of the biggest surprises along the way?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: I think it mostly met my expectations. I’ve always enjoyed the outdoors – hiking, adventures, camping under the stars, getting lost in the woods. So for me, joining the army, which was my first choice, was a place where I felt comfortable.
What probably attracted me the most was the teamwork and the sense of working as part of a group toward solving problems and getting missions done. Very early on, that’s how basic training is designed – they put you in small teams and get you to work together to solve problems.
That is really what attracted me from the beginning, and why I’m still here today.
Catherine Clark: Did you ever feel alone during that time? Did being a woman single you out during basic training, or were there people you could rely on for support?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: I always had many people around me with whom I had affinities and with whom I could share some of the challenges we were facing – trying to sort through dilemmas or questions together.
Of course, there will always be people who question why you are there. I met a significant number of people like that. However, I’ve always had allies – both men and women – among my subordinates, colleagues, and superiors.
So I tried to focus on that rather than on the people I couldn’t convince.
Jennifer Stewart: Serving in the Canadian Armed Forces is an act of bravery and public service, but it’s also demanding. There’s training, deployments – it’s not a typical job. You’re also a mother of four. Was there ever a time when you wondered if it was too much? How did you find that resilience?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: We all face difficult times as part of our journey – that’s normal. I would say there were two moments in my career when I really asked myself whether I was in the right place.
The first was after the birth of my first child. That transition to having this new human being as part of our family brought a lot of self-questioning about whether I should be doing something different to allow more time for my family.
Again, I relied on my network of support, which includes my husband, family members, and colleagues at work. Processing this new lifestyle with them helped me find ways forward. You can’t do everything alone – that’s the lesson learned. Don’t go alone. It’s about gathering a team and support around you.
So I gathered support at home and managed things with the team at work. Finding that balance is what allowed me to remain in the service while becoming more comfortable with our family lifestyle.
The second big transition was when I became a general officer. I found there was a big difference between what I was doing as a colonel and below and the responsibilities that come with being a general officer.
That transition was particularly challenging, and the questions came back: Am I in the right place? Am I skillful enough to do this? Again, it was about consulting others – speaking to people who had gone through similar challenges – and gaining confidence over time.
Catherine Clark: Having gone through those challenges yourself, how has that shaped the way you mentor other women in the ranks who are trying to build careers while also raising families?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: I always try to be available when people approach me for advice. I take the time when someone wants to unpack those dynamics with me.
At the same time, I always make it clear that we all have our own strengths and our own processes for dealing with these situations. I can share how I approached things, but it doesn’t mean that my way is the best way for someone else. It simply offers a model they can reflect on.
I’ve also accepted many conference invitations where this topic comes up frequently. At one point, I was probably speaking four times a month at various conferences – sharing my experience, answering questions, and hopefully providing some lifelines that people could adapt in their own way.
These are issues that affect many people in the military – both men and women – because of the nature of the lifestyle. It involves balancing very dynamic deployments and operational tasks with family life.
Jennifer Stewart: You touched on something important about support systems. There’s sometimes this idea that successful women shouldn’t talk about the support they’ve had along the way – as if it somehow weakens their story. I think that’s nonsense. Many of the women we speak to talk about supportive partners or family members. What role has your spouse played in your personal and professional life?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: It’s about building a team at home as well, and sharing responsibilities. It’s also about communicating. Even if he knows me very well, I can’t expect him to read my mind.
So it’s about being able to put words to what we need to work on and how we can meet everyone’s objectives and interests. It’s not about just one partner being successful – it’s about both partners having success in what they do and achieving their objectives.
Sometimes that means having hard conversations and planning ahead. For example, asking: how do you see the next 10 years? Those can be uncomfortable conversations, because they require exploring different options and scenarios. If this happens, what do we do? If that happens, what do we do?
I often feel anxious going into those conversations, but afterward there’s a great sense of comfort because we understand each other much better.
I also think we can’t expect our partners to do things exactly the way we would. If I’m gone on a one-year deployment, he’s going to run things the way he likes to run them. We have to respect each other’s space and accept that.
Sometimes that means the school picture won’t be in the outfit you would have picked. I remember coming back from a deployment in Bosnia and looking at the school photo – probably the worst T-shirt in the drawer for the annual picture. Of course, I didn’t say anything. Those are small things that, in the grand scheme of things, don’t really matter, and you can’t let them distract you.
Catherine Clark: That sounds like a relationship built on mutual respect and focusing on what really matters. Traditionally, people imagine military leaders as tough, blunt, and perhaps not very approachable. Yet you’re describing a leadership style rooted in authenticity. How do you balance that with the need to convey authority and be decisive?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: For me, all of this fits together perfectly. Leadership is about being ourselves. The person you see here is the same person I am at home. I think that creates more coherence in your approach and in your decisions.
Wearing a mask is very difficult, and over time your decisions can lose coherence if you’re constantly pretending to be someone else. The idea is to have consistency in your approach so your team can anticipate how you might react or what decision you might make.
There are times when people on operations are separated from you and can’t check in before acting. They need the flexibility and confidence to take initiative. That’s something you build during training, even when you’re in a safe environment – preparing your team to act without you always being there telling them what to do.
I remember early in my career, just after coming out of military college, I had my first troop of engineers. We had a deputy who had come up through the ranks and had much more experience than I did. We call them the second-in-command.
He noticed that I behaved differently when I was in front of the troop than when I was speaking with him privately. One day he said to me, “Madame, you’re perfectly fine just the way you are.”
At the time I wasn’t entirely sure what he meant, but as I thought about it later, I realized he was right. I was trying to be a different person in front of the group – someone I wasn’t very comfortable being. That was some of the best feedback I ever received from one of my own subordinates, and it came very early in my career. I’ve carried that lesson with me ever since.
Jennifer Stewart: When we interviewed Kirsten Hillman, she said something very similar – that the best advice she received was simply to be yourself, because anything else is exhausting. You’re leading in a time of real global uncertainty. How do you manage the weight of that responsibility?
Gen. Jennie Carignan: There’s a lot in that question.
First, I think a lot about my relationship with power and authority. Wielding power is incredibly important for someone in a position of authority. For me, power and authority are only given to you temporarily, and you have to use them in a way that creates value and positive change.
My guiding principle is: do no harm. I try to use the power and authority I’ve been given wisely.
The second piece is that I don’t try to control things I can’t control. It’s actually very simple. The only things I control are what I do and how I think about things.
I don’t control what other people will think. I don’t control what an adversary might decide to do. But I do control my mind and my actions – and that’s what I focus on. And that, frankly, is already plenty.
This transcript has been edited for length and clarity.
